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Infernal Exalted (Kickstarter Preview)

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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Lun Mayo 20, 2013 5:57 pm

Acabo de subir el PDF que nos da un pantallazo a lo que serán los Green Sun Princes en la 3ra Edición a mi cuenta de Dropbox.

Debo decir que me encanta lo que se plantea en esas páginas, y me deja con ganas de saber más. La forma en que funcionan los Shintai (que me recuerda mucho al Shintai Demoníaco de Estirpe de Oriente), es excelente.

Por cierto, el developer me pidió que le comunique cualquier feedback que tengan sobre la preview, así que es buen momento para opinar.

Sin más, el link de descarga.


Última edición por Maese Mateo el Lun Mayo 27, 2013 3:34 pm, editado 1 vez
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Lun Mayo 20, 2013 6:30 pm

John Mørke escribió:Evaluate what was wrong with the Reclamation in 2e: it made the Green Sun Princes superfluous by having them exist at every potential end of their power to free the Yozis, at which point they are utterly annihilated and erased and the story becomes about how the Yozis conquer Creation.

In this version of the idea, the Green Sun Princes are not pushing the Reclamation; their ascent is going to destabilize Creation but ultimately has nothing to do with freeing the Yozis; the classic Solar-based Infernals will be pushing their own agendas in the face of the world, which may be anything from defying the Yozis to aiding the Yozis to going into hermitage on top of a mountain swirling in the middle of an eternal Jupiter-red-storm sized Wyld hurricane and teaching whoever is badassed enough to climb it the secrets of the universe.

The Yozis still have their Reclamation plan, though, in which they show up with the replacements of the Green Sun Princes and try to break free, because the Yozis are always trying to break free. At this point, if the GSP have been successful, the world is down a few dozen Sidereals and Lunars, and the Solars are on the run, and the Realm is in disarray. Enter sandman, here comes 2.0 to tell the Green Sun Kings to step aside. What do you think their response is going to be, once they are hunted by their demonic, pseudo-slave replacements?

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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Lun Mayo 20, 2013 8:29 pm

Holden escribió:Feel free to spread this around so it's not just seen on page 3 of a busy thread on the Least Stable Forum Ever.

This PDF documents a design-in-motion.
We are constantly poking at our ideas, challenging them, and re-examining them as we continue to develop Exalted Third Edition. What we've put out is the current thinking on Infernals and their place in EX3-- as noted in the backer email and the PDF itself, this is a design subject to change before they get published, and judging by the initial response we've seen (and certain particularly eloquent critiques), one that likely will change. In particular:

The Reclamation.
Let's talk about this passage:

"Intertwined with the divine and blasphemous powers of their
Chosen, the shattered Ancients will begin to grow in power. As
their Exalted champions raise their Essence and grow the mastery
of their dark gifts, so do the Yozis feel themselves returning
to life and to power in Hell. And so, being tied together with
Solar—Infernal—Exaltations that are limitless and eternal, the
Yozis seek the power to thwart the Law of Diminishment. The
second phase of their plan, unknown to the Green Sun Princes,
is the creation of a second wave of Infernal Exalted, even greater
than the first; a force of champions and heralds who by their
nature will bring about a great Reclamation, freeing the Masters
of Creation from their eternal prison."

The Infernals have been one of the major challenges of EX3-- their prior implementation had serious issues, and needed to change. But it was also seriously cool, and many, many people loved it to death. So a constant question we had to ask ourselves was, "how much should we try to keep? What needs to go completely? What can we keep if we tweak it?" It was hard to estimate how much vision-shift people would stand before they couldn't see their beloved characters in these new Infernals any more. And so we re-imagined the Reclamation in a way that, we thought, dodged the worst of the problems it brought to the game in 2e, while still letting the concept itself remain.

Speaking for myself? I wasn't expecting the first, immediate reaction to be "No, it's not different enough. Drop it all the way. The coolest Reclamation is the one focused entirely on the Infernals themselves, draped in corrupted First Age glory, descending upon Creation to reclaim their stolen crowns, with the Yozis as shadows of faded glory backing their rise in order to spite their old enemies and the world that has largely forgotten them."

That's a hell of a compelling vision, and one we weren't sure people would want to embrace. But that seems to be what I'm hearing.

The mechanics!

We were also positive that the organizational structure of Infernal magic needed to change. The Yozi-based conceptual archaeology of the Charm trees just wouldn't work without singular perfect defenses as a design choke-point (something EX3 doesn't have). For another, we really wanted the Infernals to be a commentary on the worst excesses of the Solars and the dangers of power as an end rather than a means-- all of this demanded going back to an Ability-based Charm set. But the selling point of 2e Infernals was their strangeness, their dabbling in transhumanist themes, their der Wille zur Macht. Could we manage that with an Ability set, especially with Abyssals already using twisted-Solar Ability logic?

John conceived of Shintais as a big, expanded mechanical concept probably taking up its own separate chapter in their hardback pretty early on, and that was immediately exciting; later development on Abyssals convinced us that there were multiple ways to twist an Ability set in exciting directions without feeling redundant. But honestly, the real test was always going to be how you guys reacted to what we wanted to do. And personally, I always felt this was going to be the hardest sell, given how cool 2e the Charms were.

The response here has been gratifying and overwhelming. We seem to be on the right track Very Happy Expect development here to continue as indicated in the PDF, barring some massive revelation.
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Mar Mayo 21, 2013 3:21 pm

Holden escribió:Anyone who is deeply uncomfortable with sexualized depictions of characters should probably think very hard about whether or not to get invested in Exalted Third Edition, because it's going to have plenty of them. It's set in the twilight of an age of legends that is falling into decadence, strife, and disaster-- there's lots of violence, sex, and politics in the game.

Basphomy in Verdigris was a minor Tengese political pawn, alternately victimized by the occupying forces of the Realm and resistance elements of weak and disorganized An-Teng underground, who sought to be the tool of neither yet was forced into being a catspaw for both-- and eventually a killer for the underground, though she knew she was viewed as a disposable asset to be used up and thrown away.

She's taken the stolen might of a Solar Exaltation as reason to swear she'll never bow to anyone or anything ever again, and has come to view the world as her oyster-- she knows there are few things that can gainsay even her least desire now, and her retinue of demonic servants and handful of demon lovers have assured her that this is a completely proper attitude for one of her elevated station. Two years ago she was a Tengese pawn who had nothing; now she wears only the finest silks and the most beautiful jewelry (when she bothers to clothe herself at all, which is rarely, for her skin is like the finest armor), wields paired blades older than any standing nation in the world, takes what catches her fancy, and kills with poisonous green fire when offended. When this host of blessings is insufficient, Basphomy in Verdigris calls upon a terror chained in the depths of her Essence, and becomes a lean and eyeless dragon, whose screams are sonic hammers sufficient to shatter marble and explode flesh.

Decadence and casual power are major motifs for the Third Edition Infernal Exalted. The art in the preview is as it is because Melissa Uran was kind enough to volunteer to do a couple of sketches for us so we wouldn't have to use recycled art or no-art, and I think she knocked 'em out of the park. If I had time and budget for a proper commission, the character would probably be wearing significantly less (only jewels and golden adornments), lounging on a mound of jade and silver and fine furs, with blood-apes waving peacock-feather fans at her, an angyalka playing Time for her pleasure, and servant-boys pouring fine wine into a jeweled chalice held in one blood-stained hand. Just to really hammer the idea in good and hard.

But in this job, you make do with what you've got, and I'm proud of what we have there. I make no apologies for it, and you'll be seeing her again, along with a wide variety of very different characters, some of them sexualized to greater or lesser degrees than others, some male, some female, etc etc.

I hope this has cleared up any confusion anyone might have had.
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Mar Mayo 21, 2013 4:30 pm

Holden escribió:I realize this isn't crystal-clear due to small size and the fact that Mel sketched it in five minutes so we wouldn't have to use recycled art, but that's not a horned devil mask. That's a fine gold chain strung with tiny jewels draped across her face. The horns are very real and very permanently attached.
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Mensaje por Argonot Miér Mayo 22, 2013 1:24 am

Maese Mateo escribió:
Holden escribió: It's set in the twilight of an age of legends that is falling into decadence, strife, and disaster-- there's lots of violence, sex, and politics in the game.
.

Jajajaja por dios. Con fenómenos televisivos y literarios como Spartacus o Game Of Thrones era imposible que no se dieran cuenta que ese tipo de historias son las que mas venden ultimamente...

Mateo, no veo el link de descarga por ninguna parte.
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Miér Mayo 22, 2013 9:16 am

Última parte del primer post.
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Mensaje por Gonzo Miér Mayo 22, 2013 11:20 am

En los libros e D&D se nota la influencia de Hasbro, pues es muy difícil encontrar dibujos hipersexualzados.

Apruebo que Exalted mantenga estos temas dentro d su línea.
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Miér Mayo 22, 2013 11:31 am

No diría la influencia de Hasbro porque D&D es así desde que Gygax sacaba los libros desde el sótano de su casa en los 70s. Siempre fue pensado como un juego familiar que podías jugar con tus hijos, y obviamente el tema de la sexualidad siempre fue delicado de tratar (ya bastante polímico fue en su momento como para aparte poner dibujos de mujeres escazamente vestidas).

Dicho eso, ya estamos en el 2013 y no veo que haya cambiado la política de WotC/Hasbro para con el juego, lo cual si bien no me agrada lo entiendo ya que tratan de llegar a un mercado lo más grande posible, tratando de ser politicamente correctos y no ofender a nadie. No sé si comparto la actitud, pero la entiendo.

Lo que me gustaría, es que WotC tenga una imprenta secundaria para sacar material de contenido más adulto para D&D, como hizo White-Wolf con Black Dog, por ejemplo. No creo esto se de, pero gracias a la OGL otras editoriales lo han hecho por ellos.
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Mensaje por Argonot Jue Mayo 23, 2013 1:09 am

Conclusión: Dungeons es y siempre será muy ñoño Razz
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Mensaje por Gonzo Jue Mayo 23, 2013 4:11 am

Si Dungeons fuese los Beatles, Exalted sería Deep Purple... o algo así.
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Mensaje por Maese Mateo Jue Mayo 23, 2013 6:59 pm

Me retracto ligeramente. TSR tenía algunos dibujos bastante picarones en las tapas de sus libros. Calculo que es consecuencia de que esa era la estética que abundaba en los 80s.

Spoiler:
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Mensaje por Kraine Vidar Mar Nov 05, 2013 9:02 am

No sé si lo he entendido del todo bien (mi inglés es un poco nivel supervivencia), pero si no me equivoco los Infernales dejan de usar el sistema de Charms basados en el Yozi, para pasar a utilizar el sistema Solar-Abisal, basado en Habilidades.

Sin entrar a analizar a fondo la mecánica de los Charms (no se me da muy bien, que digamos), no me convence ese cambio, me gustaba que los Infernales fueran originales en ese aspecto. Quiero decir, a nivel conceptual los Abisales son la versión oscura de los Solares, iguales a ellos pero en negativo; los Infernales iban por otro lado, fruto del patronazgo de los Yozi, y me gustaba esa peculiaridad.

Pero en fin, será cuestión de verlo...
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